Restoring Honor

 As I said yesterday, I'm trying to move my political discussions here from facebook. So, rather than continue a thread started there, I have decided to recreate most of it here, including my response to the latest post from a friend. As a result, it will be rather lengthy.

Recently, I posted a comment on facebook questioning whether Glenn Beck is really the person that should be sponsoring a rally called "Restoring Honor." When some of my friends tried to defend Beck's honor, and encouraged me to watch him to see what he really says, this is how I responded:

Scott, I have watched him. I have read what he says. I have seen enough clips of him spewing lies and misinformation to make my stomach turn. Here are some examples:

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/do-glenn-beck-fans-know-about-his-lie...s/question-593823/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/glenn-beck/

Note that PolitiFact is a neutral site that evaluates the truth of statements made by people from all sides of the spectrum. They do not have it in for Beck.

The funny thing is that it is Beck's own words that condemn him the most. Beck has said he is an entertainer, not a journalist. He has said he is a commentator, and that he doesn't check his facts. Here he is saying it:

http://www.politicususa.com/en/Glenn-Beck-The-View

If you want to go on insisting that this is an honorable, honest man, be my guest. But that won't make it so.

 Not surprisingly, the response I got was to point out that President Obama lies too. Of course, this is absurd. You can't defend the honor of one man by challenging the honor of another. If Beck is a liar, he isn't made any less of a liar by the fact that others lie too.

One friend, dissatisfied with my challenge to this approach, repeated the charge using a euphemism to describe lying:

Politicians, journalists, celebrities - they all lie, Hansen. It is commonly referred to as spinning the truth as you probably know. Why do you expect Beck to be any different? Don't say because he is LDS, because then the conversation will turn to Reid.

And, let's not forget our own little indisgressions, half-truths and oopsies (what we thought was truth until we found out more). Humans are human - expect lies, especially in high profile personalities...

With politicians it is worse because they make decisions that directly and immediately affect people's lives is why. Journalists and celebrities, no problem - change the channel!

 I tried to point out that we're not talking about spinning the truth here, nor am I trying to hold someone else to a higher standard than I impose on myself. Here's my answer:

I know that I sometimes lie or stretch the truth or make mistakes. I admit that. I try not to do it, but sometimes I fail. But unlike Beck, I have not held myself out as a symbol and leader of honor and integrity in America. I don't live in a glass house. Beck does. And it has nothing to do with his professed religious beliefs.

Oh, and spinning something so it favors your beliefs is not at all the same thing as making something up out of whole cloth. These aren't spins, they are outright lies:
1. Death panels
2. Obama is a Muslim and wasn't born in the US.
3. Peter Orszag wasn't confirmed by the Senate.
4. The government spent $1.4 million to repair a door.
5. The average UAW worker makes $154 per hour.

There are many more, and the sheer volume of them demonstrates his intent to mislead the American public. He does so with the intent to sell his books, and to influence public opinion (and, as a result, elections). And he has the bully pulpit provided to him by Fox Noise to allow him the greatest possible influence, far greater than any single politician.

 That comment elicited this response from a different friend:

Scott, what proof is there, that those are lies?

 This response astounded me, as I find it hard to believe that anyone would still accept as true the five statements made by Beck that I called lies. Here is how I responded:

Del, are you serious? Wow!

1. There is absolutely no reference to anything akin to death panels in the health care bill.
2. Obama has said he is a Christian, and the state of Hawaii has shown us his birth record.
3. Peter Orszag, the man Beck called our budget czar, was confirmed by the Senate on January 20, 2009.
4. The government contract Beck was referring to actually included only $246,000 to repair several aircraft hangar doors.
5. The average cost of a UAW worker's wages and all their benefits is about $55.

I'm not going to do your research for you. If you don't believe me, check the facts yourself and prove me wrong.

I gave you several more examples above, but these don't even scratch the surface. Here is Beck himself admitting a lie, and claiming that he is not a reporter but a commentator and has no duty to check his facts.
http://www.tvsquad.com/2009/05/21/glenn-beck-gets-a-spanking-on-the-view/

Here's another whopper:
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/29/glenn-beck/glenn-beck-claims-science-czar-john-holdren-propos/

There are lots more. Just google "Glenn Beck lies" and you will find more than you could ever want.

 That comment by me brought this response from my friend:

‎"Obama said?" Isn't that a little like "Rush said" or "Glenn Beck said?" Rush said he is not racist! Are we going to accept that as fact or aren't we?

No death panels stated, but what is the result of socialized health care, everywhere it has ever been put in place? Never stated, but true enough!

The government contract comment should be well taken despite the cost. When does the government ever do anything as inexpensively as it could be done? My money, your money, remember?

We could go on and on! I will never excuse anyone of a lie, if it is a lie, but your earlier comment about "your guy lies too." How can you make a comment about a conservative that lies and be disgusted by that, and then turn around and support guys that lie? Obama has lied repeatedly! And no, I am not going to do your research for you!

 Finally, we get to my latest response, which is addressed to my friend, but is more general in its application. I invite my friend, or anyone else, to comment in response. Here it is:

Del, you don't want to do MY research? Don't be ridiculous. I did the research. I know that what I have said is correct. You challenge it, but provide no proof to back it up. Don't try to push that off on me.

As far as religion goes, I say I am a Christian. Many fundamentalist Christians say I am not. Does that make me a liar? Who gets to decide whether I am a Christian or not? I do. Who gets to decide whether President Obama is a Christian or not? HE DOES. If he says he believes in Christ, that's good enough for me. Nobody has the right to question the sincerity of another person's religious convictions. Beck tried that this week, and look where it got him.

Death panels? Palin made this up out of whole cloth, Beck backed her up, and their disciples have perpetuated the lie. There is no such provision in the law, there is no reason for it to happen, and there is no justification for the right causing the elderly to fear such a thing. Socialized health care is a red herring. We don't have socialized health care and you know it. Our system, even after recent changes, bears NO resemblance to socialized health care systems in other countries. You may think we are on the road to such a system, but we aren't there yet. Call me when such a thing is really proposed. In the meantime, can we please stop using false descriptors that mislead people, incite fear, and deflect the arguments away from what is true?

I'm sure that Obama has lied too. I have never said I unconditionally support him or hold him to a different standard. If he's wrong, he deserves the same level of criticism as anyone else. Of course, you give no examples or proof of his supposed lies, because the conservative way is just to scream the allegations over and over again without proof until the gullible start to believe them. However, even if Obama has lied, what does that prove? Only that he's wrong too, not that Beck is right. You sound like the little kid caught stealing. "But Mommy, Jimmy did it too!" That argument didn't work then, and it doesn't work now.

The only thing you are right about in your comment is this: "We could go on and on!" Yes we could, exposing lie after lie, and no matter how many I point out, you will continue to claim they aren't lies, even when Beck himself admits that he lied. You will continue to divert attention away from Beck by pointing the finger at others. So be it.